this one's for hanksan

[ursula]

From a fourteenth-century chronicle of England (quoted in Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince, emphasis added):

In this time Englishmen so much haunted and cleaved to the wodnes and folly of strangers that they change their clothing every year, especially since the coming of the Hainaulters years ago. Sometimes their clothes are long and wide, at others they are short, tight, dagged and cut about all round. The sleeves of their surcoats and their hoods have tapets, long and wide which hang down too far. They look, to tell the truth, more like tormentors and devils in their clothing than normal men. And the women surpass the men in their clothing which is so tight that they hang fox-tails under their dresses at the back to hide their arses, a kind of behaviour which may well have provoked many of the evils and misfortunes that have beset the kingdom of England.

Comments

[ex-greythist387.livejournal.com]

Tails! I don't suppose the book says which C14 chronicle is quoted...?

This goes back a bit, IIRC; anyone interested might see

Brewer, Derek. "Englishmen with Tails: La3amon, `Muggles' and a Transhistorical Ethnic Joke in English." In Medieval Heritage: Essays in Honour of Tadahiro Ikegami, edited by Masahiko Kanno, Hiroshi Yamashita, Masatoshi Kawasaki, Junko Asakawa and Naoko Shirai, 3-15. Tokyo: Yushodo Press, 1997.

[ursula]

It's The Brut (EETS 36, vol. II), referencing a period between 1344 and 1346, first surviving version from the early fifteenth century.

I'm sort of sad that I don't have the sewing skills to make fourteenth century underwear-with-tail.

[ex-greythist387.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Now I get to ponder how that particular bit got into the kitchen-sink chronicle to drown all details (at least till Holinshed)....

:)

[ursula]

Fashion in the Age of the Black Prince quotes several other texts about tight clothing in that time period (and potential moral degeneracy). Haven't found anything else about tails, though!

[d-m.livejournal.com]

// wow. that last line is the most awesomely surreal thing
// i've heard in awhile.

// i guess when people complain about the teenagers today,
// you can say "at least they're not using fox-tails."

[ursula]

At least not under their dresses!

[god-of-belac.livejournal.com]

Off topic, but since I don't have your email:

A couple Pennsics ago, you helped me get my name registered. When I moved to Chicago, I misplaced the confirmation paperwork, and the Midrealm heralds can't seem to locate it within the SCA system. Do you know who would be best to ask about this?

Thanks,
JC

[ursula]

It sort of depends on when & where it got lost. What was the name you were trying to register?

[god-of-belac.livejournal.com]

William Atherbridge. I don't know when it got lost.

[ursula]

OK, the name isn't lost, though it may have been delayed. The Midrealm heralds probably couldn't find it because you submitted through the East. The East kingdom sent the name up to Laurel on this letter, and returned your device:

http://ech.eastkingdom.org/ILoIs/2006-01/2006-01-LoD.html

That was in March, and Laurel hasn't ruled on anything from that letter yet. (Now that Laurel is starting to move to an online commenting system, I can see that your name is still available to comment on.) I suspect the ruling will come out soon. You can check for the LoARs here:

http://www.sca.org/heraldry/loar/

(Might be scheduled for the August letter, which isn't out yet?)

You might also want to write to the heralds in the East, to let them know that your address has changed, so they can send you an official notification. Eastern Crown Herald is either the right person to contact, or knows who is-- you can find her address at the top of the letter I just linked to.

[tejolote.livejournal.com]

I still think this is too funny for words.

[gwacie.livejournal.com]

Personally, I still think the gentleman who wrote the chronicle was exagerating. Thinking that a dress that tight must show ass cleavage and therefore there must be something preventing it and inventing the fox tail phenomenon. However I think that a tight dress alone would smoosh the buttocks together and not show a stark line of division without the aid of fluffy appendages. One wonders if the gentleman who wrote this passage had much occaison to find out what ladies of the time wore under their dresses.

[reasie.livejournal.com]

yeah - I'm totally agreeing with Grace's interpretation.

Add to that I've seen fox tails affixed to the rumps of witches in literature from the time period... near the time period? Aw heck I gotta go looking through stuff now, huh? But I know it appears in Chaucer... and in Spencer (which is way later)... so a fox tail was a symbol, clearly, of not-nice things to begin with...

[ursula]

Very possible, but I'm still amused by his invention :)

[foxen.livejournal.com]

Wow... All I can say is wow.